Fishing

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Fishing

Post by jobro13 on Sun May 31, 2015 4:36 pm

I want to add fishing next sunday. How should this look?

The first tier fishing rod will be extremely simple. I'm sure you guys can already guess the recipe right now.

So the main question is, what feature should fish have?

- Rarer fishes should be more difficult to catch.
- Fishes will get "random" sizes, so people can compete on catching the larger fish. Larger fishes are harder to catch.
- Possibility to add "bait", where certain fishes are more common to hook on a certain bait.

The bait one can easily be added, but how must I make "fishing" difficult? Recall that the old game had a reaction time which was dependant on the rarity of the fish. The more rare, the less time you had.

Let me know if you have any ideas.
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Re: Fishing

Post by evilaltofdoom on Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:11 pm

Fishing is fun if you get creative.

Some notes about pole fishing:
Terrafirmacraft's deal is to focus on the line strength. If you reel in too fast against a fish that struggles, that line is going to break. I usually end up wading towards the fish because I am scared to damage my fishing pole. However, Terrafirmacraft has a whopping one fish to catch. You have 52. I suggest making the size of the fish proportional to the pull. Other fish won't be available via pole.

Pole fishing in general sucks. It's easy to start but the potential is low. At the best, you get one fish. At the worst, there's 10 pounds of moss, twigs and dead vegetation on the hook.

That being said, there's a massive recreational sport behind it. I want various hooks and baits (worms, turkey liver, insects and even tiny fish). We can go even deeper with various lines, floats and weights designed for specific fish.

Notes about net fishing:
Net fishing is suitable for a small group, especially near rivers. A player should be able to place a net between two points, given his net is large enough. To balance, nets aren't capable of getting fish that live deep (well, they can, but that's later), take damage in the form of holes, reducing not only durability but catch, and the material cost of one is considerable.

Once boats are in, fishing with nets opens up. However, paddle boats aren't able to beat the drag of a net. The most basic propeller ones can, and so can large sailed ships. These boats are known as fishing trawlers.

Traps:
Cages, traps or pots are used to catch our crustacean friends. These need to be dropped to the bottom of the ocean floor and then retrieved, so roping them together is necessary. Baiting them (dead fish) improves the yield.

Harpoons:
Runescape does such a godawful version of this
Harpoons are placed onto a boat so they may be launched at the largest of prizes such as tuna and whales. You could easily have a net in the back and a whale on deck.

And the best kind of fishing...
Dynamite!
Dropping explosives in the water kills all of the nearby fish and makes them float upwards. It's how the Asians do it, even after environmental mandates. Would be OP as hell (it is) if nitroglycerin was easy to make.
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Re: Fishing

Post by jobro13 on Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:44 am

Darn!

This is why I need suggestions! I have a tunnel vision when it comes to those things. All the time I was thinking in "Fishing = Fishing Rod". I'm incredibly stupid for not thinking about other ways to fish. In general, my "box of thinking" is very small - if I think "out of the box" I'm still in the general box of survival games, because I've worked on this wayy too long! And that's also why I need people who have a fresh, unbiased look on this Very Happy

Before I give any feedback: this first. I iterate my game designing. This is my new approach to this, and does it work? Yes: look at the updates I made in a week. These are all unfinished features (think about the voxel mine) but they work. Due this iteration stuff, I will start simple and slowly expand it to make it more cooler. Like that, I can make one feature update per week. I'm currently on the rate of an update per day (note that I am not classifying those as a "feature update" as I don't see adding a tool as a feature update but rather a content update! But it's still an update!!)

Let's take a look:

I will use "durabiltity" on fishing rods. The durability increases more if you catch larger fish.

Proposal on fish catching: (with rod)
-> You have to react "fast" in order to catch rare fish. This reaction will be measured via one click. If you don't click fast enough, let's just say that the fish has enough time to completely eat the bait. (whether bait is used or not).
-> Plus a minigame for reeling fish in. This might consist of that power thing you suggested, dealing massive durability "damage" if pulled too hard.



It will be possible to fish with sticks. I will work with a same appraoch as stones. There is a certain set of fish which is OK to catch with a stick. There is also a small chance you catch another fish. This would make it possible to catch a rare fish (e.g. shark) with a stick. This may be unrealistic, but that's countered by the fact that the fish will not be catchable in like 1/10000 times. (These kind of unexpected stuff make the game fun. "You catched a shark". LOL!? WAT? WITH MY STICK *HYPE*)

The current set of fish also has trash in it. You can catch "dead crabs" for example, which are not usable at all (lol). I could add moss and other random dirt too for fun.

I guess that an approach which involves a lot of parameters (line length, bait type) will need some tweaking. I guess I can dynamically alter the rarities of the fish for a certain situation, where in an optimal setting the rarity is HIGHLY boosted, and other fish are less likely to spawn. Nevertheless, you can always call all fish in all situations, but in practice this will (almost) never happen due to really low rarities. (*COUGH* GOLD)


Nets will require an alteration of the game. It will need a buliding interface. (not the custom one, but real premade buildings here, which need to be combined). I was planning on adding that (like windmills, or other stuff) so thats no problem. The two points will be clicked and the game will figure out if the net is long enough for that. Fishes can randomly spawn in the net, and will slowly deal damage. If the net has no durability left, it breaks, and all fish are gone. If a huge fish has been catched then this will do more damage, so it's important to either have a durable net, or check it often. The net will have a visual sign that fish are in there.


I guess I can just add nets to boats (just like you place them in the river). I'll make sure it detects "motion" so it can alter the rate fish spawns in them.


Traps would work the same as net, but now as ocean variant for deeper fish.


Harpoons: neat. How we make them though? I don't know how they work, but a firing mechanism is gonna be tricky to create in Stranded. (although whales provide food for like 30 in game days, lol)


Dynamite:
You already had me laughing at the harpoons but this is the best suggestion ever. I will make sure that if explosives are in-game it also checks the water. If fish are killed, I will make them float. Lel.



PROPOSAL FOR VERSION 1

As said, I'm gonna iterate over this.

First version of fishing:
-> Add 2 fishing rods, the "fishing rod" and the "stick"
Fishing minigame consists of reacting fast enough. Durability scales with fish mass, which generally also scales with rarity.

Second version:
Add bait. Fishing rods get a property for line length. Line lenght is a paremeter to get the static rarity table for fishes (aka, it figures out what is the most common fish for this setup, which will change as function of line length). Bait will also alter the rarity table. BEFORE THIS UPDATE: add "bait". How is bait gonna be found? Add a shovel to inspect ground? How do we find insects? I can think of a way, but they are lame. ("Inspect shrub/ground", where randomly is determined if you find something ..)

VERSION 3
Add nets and traps

VERSION 4
Add explosive fishing and harpoons


I'd like to note that all versions will scale with the "technolgy level" in game. It makes no sense that you have an "extremely powerful fiber fishing rod", but cannot make bronze Wink

In other words: nets will be released about the time that "clothing" is introduced too, as weaving will be some skill necessary for this.

Let me know what you think. Thanks for the suggestion!
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Re: Fishing

Post by evilaltofdoom on Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:22 pm

Sounds great. A few extras that I somehow forgot at 5 AM.
Modern fishing rods are usually made of fiberglass (or a graphite variant) and are outside the scope of this game.. for now
However, wooden fishing rods have been used in large up until recently. They're typically comprised of three pieces:
The bottom is usually a highly durable wood (basically any hardwood)
The midsection is a stiff, rigid wood such as hickory or ironwood
The top is elastic. Bamboo works wonders, and ash isn't that bad.
This is just the ideal setup, and requires extensive work to even shape and glue the rod.
Older rods, if not pieced together with the best possible woods nearby, were no more than glorified pool cues with a line + spindle attached. They're a single piece.
Creating a good rod is difficult - your wood needs to be of straight, good quality. You also need a long bench with various tools (knives, files, sandpaper), a vice and some other shaping tools. Not sure how applicable this would be to the game without some serious crafting overhauls.

Nets are easily made with various materials. Today's nets are all synthetic compounds like nylon, although any fibrous material can get used with various durabilities. Not in any specific order:
Kenaf
Flax
Jute
Cotton
Wool
Silk

Harpoons are effectively barbed spears, so they'll stick even if the fish pulls. Mounted harpoons on a ship in this day and age are typically shot out using propellant or air pressure, both of which are easily capable of accurately hitting whales not at the surface. For Stranded however, simply attaching several harpoons with ropes to the ship should suffice should a whale or tuna surface.
If you're curious about how they're processed, ships simply drag their bodies onto or near the coast. Today they use cranes to put them on land, but smart sailing should allow a person to beach the giant catch so it may be processed

Note: talk about whale processing later

Another idea was the idea of regionalized fish. Fish live in certain waters, and that will force the catch to only use the fish that live in a specific part of the ocean (rivers are effectively their own aquatic biome too). I have some data regarding what kind of sea life lives in what parts, however it's sorted by latitude (artic to tropical) and open (ocean) or closed (lake) status. I have absolutely zero river data, however I think river fish are mixed in with the ocean fish. Contact me if you want it.
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Re: Fishing

Post by jobro13 on Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:00 am

Small follow up.

The design proposed here is a level of detail which I cannot manage at the moment. Besides that, I need to craft a bunch of minigames which will make this sanding and shaping possible. I will again "iterate" over this, gradually changing how to make fishing rods.

The nets will be easier. I'll create some weaving minigame and define some durabilities for the given fibers.

Harpoons would mean that fish are visible, which is tricky to do. However, this will also be added.

The regionalized fish is a good idea. I would like to see that list, also because of nice fish names I can add. The more fish, the better, because everyone wants to complete their own fish list (remind me that I add "personal discoveries" too).
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Re: Fishing

Post by evilaltofdoom on Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:33 am

How long can a man enjoy what he doesn't feel?
(These lists are heavily edited as they include animals that live on coasts like seals and penguins, also info that was specific to my goals)

Artic:
Blue shark
Bluefin tuna
Cod
Conger eel
Frill shark
Halibut
Sea lamprey
Sturgeon

Freshwater Lake, Temperate:
Carp
Longnose gar
Pike
Black bullhead
Yellow bullhead
Brown bullhead
Char
Perch

Freshwater Lake, Tropical:
Carp
Lungfish
Milkfish
Stingray
Tigerfish
Guppy

Ocean, Temperate:
Angelshark
Basking shark
Blue shark
Bluefin tuna
Bluefish
Cod
Common skate
Conger eel
Frill shark
Great white shark
Halibut
Hammerhead shark
Longfin mako shark
Marlin
Ocean sunfish
Opah Winfish
Shortfin mako shark
Spiny dogfish
Spotted wobbegong
Sturgeon
Swordfish
Anchovy
Bat ray
Brook lamprey
Flounder
Hagfish
Hake
Herring
Mackerel
Salmon
Sea nettle jellyfish
Shad
Sole
Spotted ratfish
Steelhead trout
Thornback ray

Ocean, Tropical:
Angelshark
Blacktip reef shark
Blue shark
Bluefin tuna
Bluefish
Bull shark
Coalcanth
Common skate
Frill shark
Great barracuda
Giant grouper
Hammerhead shark
Reactor mako shark (probably the only fantasy one i'll let slip lol)
Manta ray
Marlin
Nurse shark
Ocean sunfish
Opah
Spiny dogfish
Spotted wobbegong
Stringray
Swordfish
Tiger shark
Whale shark
Whitetip reef shark
Bat ray
Clownfish
Glasseye
White-spotted puffer
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Re: Fishing

Post by jobro13 on Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:02 pm

Thanks!

For next sunday, I will put in the fish of the old game. These fish /do/ exist, but some fish are ... well... they have a legendary-like status.
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Re: Fishing

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